Sunday, July 31, 2016

The uncondtional forgiveness heresy

on Constance Cumbey's blog, I endeavored to explain from the perspective of one
who has been victimized so knows how it works, the evils of psychic domination.
This was intensely dismissed as delusional, and bitterness and lack of forgiveness
towards the perpetrator who I refer to as my biological (not adopted) so called (because
lousy) mother.

an extreme example is this, and I am posting this as an answer here having invited
him her or it to see the rest of the answer here that I posted part of there.

"Anonymous said
"in any case, any lessening of hostile feeling towards her risks reactivating the
mesmerism she had on me. trance state. crippled peaceful no reason to live
eventual state if allowed to go on catatonic or nearly so."
We are asked to give up everything to follow Christ, including the right to "not be harmed". Complete forgiveness,
100%. No excuses. It's hard, but that's why we are asked to count the cost beforehand."
10:51 AM

aha, you admit your idea of forgiveness means surrender to evil. you mention "the right to 'not be harmed.'"
and this in context of the risk of losing sanity and coming under evil spirit influence.
 you are a new ager of
the worst sort, that perverts the words of Christ, twisting the Scriptures to your own and possibly others'
destruction (2 Peter 3:16b) we are not called to do this kind of forgiveness you demand, but to "save yourselves
from this untoward generation" Acts 2:40
God damn you to hell. and rescue all those you've sent back into the hands of pedophiles, rapists, hypnotizers,
corrupters, seducers, abusers of the children and animals that they need to protect and you would keep them
from being able to do so because they have to "forgive" not to mention the cultists and slow persuaders away
from the faith of Christ.


unconditional love and unconditional forgiveness are not biblical. you won't find it in the Bible
only in twisted exegeses that are really eisegesis, reading things into the Bible that aren't there.
cherry picking a verse here and there and exalting something out of all proportion to its role
in the Bible and you won't find it in the behavior exhibited by The Fathers when confronted with pretend repentance,
such as when St. Athanasius refused to admit Arius to communion recognizing his fraud in
pretending to renounce his heresy.

Jesus said to resist not evil but what context? immediately follows turn the other cheek if someone
smites you on your cheek. okay, so what kind of smiting? it must be something leaving you in
a position to turn the other cheek, i.e., conscious, not stunned, standing upright, alive. in other
words, a slap in the face. this is not evil with a capital E.

Jesus said to the Father to forgive His crucifiers because they did not know what they did. That
however is usually not the case regarding people who do serious harming and are often
psychopathic. Prior to the verses about forgiving seventy times seven, IMMEDIATELY PRIOR,
is Matthew 18:15-17 which describes a process of private confrontation on an issue, and the
problem person won't "hear" you. then you take a couple of witnesses for the next confrontation
to establish who said what so no one of you can lie about the other. If the problem person still
won't "hear" you, take it to the congregation. and if still the problem person won't "hear" you
"let him be to thee as a heathen man and a publican." In other words, total ostracization. act
like he or she doesn't even exist.

This is falsely handled by people like Tom Horn and/or Chuck Missler I forget which I think it
was Tom Horn, who argue that no one should publicly criticize a minister of God on a blog
post but talk privately to him. Well, that criticized person made their problem statements
publicly, and it is not a relationship that is at issue but the false teaching that others influenced
by it need to hear the refutation of. and warnng against the false teacher. St. Paul said to
publicly rebuke evil doers before all so the others will fear and named names on two occasions.
One of which was Alexander the Coppersmith, who was denounced for two things: doing
much harm to Paul personally, and greatly resisting the Gospel.

Some situations are so dangerous that you need to short circuit the process and just get out of

And when one is susceptible for whatever reason, the situation is dangerous.

unconditional this and that is how evangelicalism following the fads of writers not the word of
God and not searching the Scriptures like the Bereans did has decayed into the mess it is now.
From an Orthodox perspective, Protestantism in general has problems. but this is bad by any
standard, and in Roman Catholicism and even in Orthodoxy you find this same poison. It
facilitates the worst crimes against children, the worst heresies and covering it all up.

in Orthodoxy, the problem is that instead of some Bible verses out of context we have writings
of monastics, which are sometimes over the top. the context not only of the words but of the
writer should be kept in mind, which show THESE ARE NOT APPROPRIATE OUTSIDE
OF A MONASTERY. Church canons against certain behaviors apply in the world (the rest
of the church living around marriage and business and whatnot things of the world) and in
monasteries, so that means you have to take some action involving denunciation and getting
some prosecution done. In monastery incidents there are cases of people being thrown out.

The sort of things we are not to take note of are the sort of petty nonsense people kill over
or start family feuds lasting generations. Typical in Middle Eastern and supposedly Orthodox
Balkan cultures.

The second problem is the problem of pride. the monastery is targeting this above most
else, since the other sins lust and gluttony are ruled out by the lifestyle though homosexuality
occasionally becomes a problem.

Pride and vainglory can operate, poisoning ANY virtue like with the Pharisee who was
proud of all his virtue which ruined the value of that virtue in God's eyes, compared to
the sinner publican who was sorrowful and ashamed and repentant. And pride can
definitely ruin the virtue of condemning evil and exposing it because you can feel very
holy, virtuous and worthy of all glory and honor and praise.

That is the context in which Desert Fathers statements were made, that are prostituted to
the coddling of evil in RC and Orthodoxy.

the problem is inappropriate application of Scripture or of monastic examples. whence
the problem? the evil one throws the mind into a sharp focus on something out of
context. someone who is well intentioned gets obsessed. Also a person who is not
well intentioned at all, knowingly twists and misapplies Scripture and elders' words.

A classic example of Scripture twisting is a Talmudic decision regarding the rule that
one shall not be killed for their children's sake or the children for the fathers' sake but
each die for his own sin. This is obviously against killing family members of a
condemned person. And this law was cited in Kings or Chronicles to explain why when
a man was killed for the murder of the king whose son ordered the murderer's death
the murderer's family was not killed. Obviously this common sense meaning was the
interpretation in those days.

But in the Talmud somewhere we read that it was held to mean that a son couldn't
testify against his father (or daughter couldn't either). that would be a case of someone
dying on account of his children. OBVIOUSLY THIS MAKES PROSECUTION FOR
INCEST, OR FOR PROSTITUTING YOUR DAUGHTER, or anything else prohibited
for a parent to do to the kid impossible. I can only wonder what the rabbi who came
up with this one was into himself.

Here are some links that address this.

In Christ or Therapy by E.S Williams, unconditional love is described as luciferic since it is
amoral in fact antimoral. unconditional forgiveness is denounced in the next chapter.

I can't buy the rejection of therapy entirely or the rejection of psychiatric drugs, but then
some people surrender themselves to any authority easily and others pick and choose.

amazon kindle gives you a chance to read some of this.

And the NEw AGe scene is big on this unconditional and non judgemental stuff. that should
tell you something right there.